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The never ending story: Xen and LinuxSaturday, June 6. 2009Trackbacks
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Hi Jörg,
let add a non-heliocentric perspective to your reasoning. I came from the linux world, the debian county so to speak. Linux give freedom to many of us, but "free will, it is a beast", as John Milton says to his son in Devil's Advocate. Freedom can make things take longer than expected, but that freedom doesn't cost us a cent. I'm not the most skilled technician around to give authoritative opinions in the field, so take my as humble toughts. I got hands on ZFS, xVM paravirtualization, Zones, Resource Management and many other technologies inside OpenSolaris. I have been overwhelmed by the massive amount of high level facilities in this OS, and I really think it will make its way in datacenters in the years to come. The media: often they follow the hype, or take facts for granted, or worst they have prejudices. I also had my prejudices on Sun and Solaris, but after 600 pages of the "Bible", after wandering in many websites & blogs like yours, my perspective has changed my judge. In these days I see other priorities: Windows, with it's Domain or Active Directory implementation (LDAP+Kerberos+vendor-lock-in), is gaining places in servers because *NIX hasn't a similar facility ready out of the box. It's sad when we have to get our shining *NIX servers under the Domain or AD... In this trivial field we are losing ground. Bye.
Probably your heliocentric view draws your attention to much to the dark dungeons, where the data centers are.
But Linux is not only there. Linux runs everywhere nowadays. Probably that was one reason for Ted Tsos reasoning. And Ingos posting is not set against paravirtualisation. The virtio-model for kvm is exactly that. There are even drivers (network an block, iirc) for windows vms on top of kvm. But that stuff is already in the kernel. Xen dom0 support is not. Don't make the mistake to call Ingo Molnar an idiot. How long do you expect to see hvm incapable hardware? The trend goes into the opposite direction. NPIV, SR-IOV, etc. is coming up. Probably it would be wiser to get Xen dom0-support into the kernel rather sooner than later. Even, if that would mean stripping it down somewhat.
I donīt call him an Idiot, but his resolution is really strange. Why strip out all the important parts of Xen just to ease up integration. When this is only way to integrate it, itīs better that Xen stays out of the source and they work with KVM instead because Xen is in use elsewhere. And by the way, even brilliant people have the right to be boneheaded from time to time ... but they donīt have the right that nobody talks about it
I expect HVM-less system for quite a time. There are several models of Core processors from Intel still in sale who doesnīt provide VT-X. NPIV, SR-IOV ... that is quite a time in the future to itīs introduction into the mass market. And what do you do with all the existent servers? From my experience Xen is used primarily in data centers and sound cards arenīt really an issue there
You say "Xen is used primarily in data centers" and "The driver thing is a non-issue in server space. At the end all servers consists out of pretty much the same components." .
I would say: thats one of the best reasons for dropping "legacy code" from the Xen-tree, if it stops the integration of dom0-support into the kernel. We're normally pushing 10-20 servers per week into customer projects (Proliants and Supermicro - sorry). Most of them use Opteron and Xeon CPUs. For Intel CPUs without VT capabilities - that's just a marketing "feature". I guess they could enable it on nearly every server CPU, today. There are existing boxes, obviously. They will be replaced (or their VMs moved) as soon as the next server/blade comes along.
I guess, the Linux folks have more problems with the politics (read: GPL et.al.) then with the code itself, that's why they try to argue in such bizarre ways...
See my entry at: http://blogs.sun.com/pfuetz/entry/kvm_vs_xen
the discussion is about dom0 support, not domU support
if dom0 code pokes deeply into other peoples code, then it`s hard to integrate and i can understand the discussion
the discussion is about dom0 support, not domU support
if dom0 code pokes deeply into other peoples code, then it`s hard to integrate and i can understand the discussion |
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